Wednesday, November 20, 2013

Fishbowl #6: "Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?"

Afternoon!  

Overall, great posts and questions during our last fishbowl.  The skill I want us to continue to work on is contextualizing our questions with evidence from the text as well as supporting our inferences with specific quotes and plot points.  

Here are a couple good examples of that from our last discussion:

Kelsey asked, "The rest of the year, the box was put away, sometimes in one place, sometimes another...." (page 2).  Why do you guys think the box was placed in different places every year? What was the point of this?

And Rebecca inquired:  When reading this story, I noticed how the author frequently used names and specific details of the town and its inhabitants. For example, "Mr. Martin and his oldest son, Baxter, held the black box securely on the stool until Mr. Summers had stirred". What is the purpose of the specifics? Why would the author do this, in contrast to the majority of the other short stories we have read?

Keep up the good work!  Happy posting!

113 comments:

  1. Does "Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?" have any elements of a Southern Gothic text?

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    1. Yes for it takes place in a smallish town. And a lot of the southern Gothics that we have read so far have had settings like that. For example "A good man is hard to find"

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  2. "Connie, don't fool around with me. I mean- I mean, don't food around" Why do you think Arnold changed his statement from me to in general?

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    1. I think that this was Arnold's way of making himself seem less scary or demanding. When he says's "Don't fool around at me" it seems more like a threat than a more general "don't fool around".

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    2. I think that Arnold changes his statement to make it seem more inviting and less of a threat.

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    3. I think that Arnold Friend made it more general perhaps to show that he dislikes her composition, that he feels she needs to change herself. I noticed how he used "I mean, I mean" and it shows nervousness for Friend's part so maybe adding the second sentence would be emphasis on the word as well as showcasing that he is afraid she will leave him.

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    4. I believe that Arnold changed his statement to give the appearance that he is kind and cares about her. He changes it to almost seem like it where advice rather than a threat.

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    5. I believe Arnold changed his words so Connie wouldn't be frightened. He wanted her to like him more than anything.

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  3. How does the continuous referencing to music display a theme? The words that Arnold Friend said to Connie were a lot of the time lyrics that she recognized. What was the point of this?

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    1. I think that this idea kind of goes back to the uncanny because she recognized the lyrics but she didn't know the man. So there was that feeling of familiarity and comfort, but at the same time she was scared and confused.

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    2. I think the author used music as a motif in this story because Connie uses music as a sort of escape in her home life when she is around her parents and her family, and then the same music is playing in Arnold's car when he pulls up. This resembles that music might not only be an escape to her, but also has some significance to him, which could be one reason why she isn't repelled from him right away and is intrigued to stay and talk.

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    3. Hannah,
      I think that music could have been a motif in this text I think it represented stability and reality. On the first page it says "the music was always in the background, like music at a church service; it was something to depend on.

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  4. How do you think this story could be uncanny or cathartic? Do you think this story is more of one element than the other?

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    1. I think that it is more uncanny because she experiences a lot of things that she is knows, but at the same time they are being presented in a way different then how she knew them.

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    2. I think it is somewhat cathartic when she realizes that she's not going to get out of this safely and she begins getting hysterical.

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    3. I think it is uncanny in the way that she knew and had gone out with Arnold before, so he was familiar, yet now, he was stalker- ish and creepy. He knew everything about her and she didnt know how

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    4. One of the things that I found cathartic in the story is Connie's feeling on the last couple pages where she goes from being out of control, scared, and screaming to "All that screaming had blasted it out of her". She goes from being very fearful to someone who has not motivation.

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    5. I think a cathartic moment in this text was when Connie finally realized that she was in danger, when she realizes that Arnold Friend must be in his 30s and she says, "Maybe you two better go away." Up until this point, she seems a little anxious but she's also curious and is asking Arnold questions. After this moment, she turns very defensive and begins to understand that she is going to have to find a way out of this situation. She suddenly becomes more mature and protective of herself, knowing she is all alone.

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    6. I think it is uncanny because she feels like she knows him from where but yet is so frightened because of the lack of things she knows about him. She also is frightened by the amount of things he knows about her which added a very creepy factor to the text.

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  5. How did the title of the story, "Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?" relate to the story? What does it mean/signify?

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    1. I think in some ways it could have drawn a parallel to Arnold Friend and the uncanny feeling he gave us, because throughout the story he continued to reference where Connie's family was, and where Connie had been. He seemed to know everything about Connie and her family.

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    2. I think it brings out the creepiness of the story. It shows that Arnold knows everything about her like where she was going and where she had been.

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    3. I think that the title shows Connie as a person, her internal self and thoughts. She felt most alive and happiest when she was doing something she wasn't supposed to be doing. The darkness of lives is a greater temptation than desire to live an ordinary life in the light. She, like others, did not consider the consequences: She did not care where they are going or where they had been. Her narcissism blinded her, as proven by the quote, "She knew she was pretty and that was everything."

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    4. I think this symbolizes Arnold's "addiction" to Connie. He always want to know where she is and what she is doing and he always manages to find out. Plus this title sounds so direct and creepy that it makes me think that Arnold is saying it himself.

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  6. Why do you think the author chose to name this short story what she did? Most of the other short stories we read had an identifiable reason in the text for naming it the way he or she did. Why is this one more abstract? What is the purpose of this?

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  7. There is a quote on the last page, when Arnold Friend says, "'...now they're eating corn and hot dogs cooked to bursting over an outdoor fire [talking about her family], and they don't know one thing about you and never did and honey, you're better than them because not a one of them would have done this for you'". What is the point Arnold is trying to get across through this passage? Did he do something to her family? Is the temporal structure of the short story altered through this passage?

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    1. Arnold is trying to intimidate Connie with a creepy amount of information about her family, friends, and their whereabouts. Arnold threatens her family multiple times if she does not go with him, but his point in this passage is to convince her to go with him.

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    2. I think that Arnold is trying to make Connie a little bit intimidated by showing how much he really knows about her. I know that if someone came up to me and told me a bunch of things about my family that no one else knew, I would be curious and scared to see what else he might be capable of.

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    3. I think he says this to try and convince Connie that she does not need her family and that she will be okay to go with Arnold. He's sort of coaxing her to make her feel like both he and Connie are better than her family.

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  8. What is the significance of the title "Where are you going, where have you been"?

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    1. The significance of the title "Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been" is that it represents where Connie is going in life if she continues to act and look the way she does, what the future might hold and how it will change her. It also represents how Connie changes over time to become the way she is. Whether it be family friends, or past events.

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  9. Ellie is a very minor character in this story. What do you think the purpose of him being in the story was when the author could have written the story without him just fine?

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    1. I think he could be important to the story because it could make Connie feel a little less intimidated by Arnold. It comes across less scary and more like all the other situations she has been in with guys because its not just one person-there are two.

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    2. Nicole,
      I think that the purpose of Ellie's character was to give Arnold a person who was on his side. On page 4 Arnold says "Ellie and I come out here especially for you" giving the impression that she should go with him because he has another person on his side.

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    3. I believe that the author included Ellie in this story to show that evil can come in many forms. At the beginning, Ellie was just kind of present but somewhat irrelevant, and he did not come across as intimidating as Arnold. Connie's main concern was not Ellie. However, when Ellie offers to cut Connie's phone lines, it shows that he is also out to get Connie, whether it be for Arnold's gain or his own.

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    4. I think he is there so Arnold doesn't come off as stalkerish in the beginning. Having another person there probably made Connie feel a little comfortable. If it were just Arnold she would be so creeped out that she probably wouldn't even have gone outside to begin with.

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  10. I think that its more uncanny for in the beginning she doesn't really know him or really remember who he is. "'Who the hell do you think you are?' Connie said"

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    1. Oh sorry this is for nicole's post

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  11. What was the significance of Arnold saying "My sweet blue-eyed girl," even though she has brown eyes? What could that signify about him in general?

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    1. This tells us that he is not really interested in her, only in what he wants with her. Arnold's statement shows a lack of personal relationship with Connie and that he does not know her well if at all.

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    2. I think the line "My sweet blue-eyes girl" is a song lyric.

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    3. Hannah, why do you think that?

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    4. I agree with Zach, by not even knowing the color of her eyes he is saying that he does not care about Connie. Throughout the story Arnold keeps saying he knows Connie but he really is just trying to manipulate her.

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    5. After "'My sweet blue-eyed girl'", the phrase continues with "he said in a half-sung sign that had nothing to do with her brown eyes but was taken up just with the vast sunlit reaches of the land behind him and on all sides of him". This points out that he was almost more focused on the landscape than with her, thinking about other things. I agree with Zach when he says that he really isn't interested in her, only in what she can give him.

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  12. "Hey, you know that old woman down the road, the one with the chickens and stuff- you know her?... Don't you like her?" Why did Arnold ask Connie how she feels about this woman?

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    1. Arnold asked Connie this most likely to show Connie his knowledge of the people around her and Connie herself. It shows to what extent Arnold will go to throughout the story. Almost as a threat to Connie and the people she holds near.On page 7, Arnold is expressing this knowledge of Connie and her family to Connie as she stayed home from the family barbecue, threatening to harm them. "Aunt Tillie's. Right now they're uh - drinking. Sitting around."

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    2. Maybe this passage was to foreshadow the possible death of Connie and/or her family. He mentions this woman that Connie knows is dead, and Arnold acts as if he is surprised by this news. This mention of death installs a fear inside of Connie as well as the reader.

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  13. There were a lot of points in this story where I feel like she could have walked away. Do you think that she kept on talking to him because of the uncanny aspect; she saw something familiar yet different in him?

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    1. I think that could be. It says on the 6th page, "She recognized all this... But all these things did not come together." I think she wants to figure out what is so familiar, but unfamiliar about this man. I don't think that was what led her to talk to him in the first place, though.

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    2. Or was she generally attracted to him?

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    3. I think that she saw a lot of familiarity in Arnold that was also in herself. One thing that connected the two of them was that they were both listening to the same music, which intrigued her and led her to be interested in more aspects of him. Even though her gut was probably telling her there was something wrong, she wanted to express the "grown-up" side of her that she thought she had by continuing to "flirt".

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    4. I think Connie kept talking to Arnold Friend because she was interested in what he had to say, for the reason that he was different than other guys she had met. When she first see's the car: "Her heart began to pound and her fingers snatched at her hair, checking it, and she whispered, "Christ, Christ," wondering how bad she looked." This shows that Connie was first more concerned with her appearance rather than her safety.

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    5. I think she did continue to talk to him because of that feeling she had of knowing him, but I also think that once she realized he was a bad guy she could have walked away yet she didn't. I think she didn't because she was caught in a situation where she didn't know what to do so instead of going into action she just froze up almost.

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    6. I think she felt the need to connect the dots with why she knew this person. This curiosity ended up making her stay outside until Arnold went full creepy stalker. She should have left much earlier.

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  14. For the beginning part of the story, Connie's friend remains nameless "She and that girl." "Her friend was there" "Connie's best friends" But then towards the middle Arnold is the one to give her a name "And your best friend's name is Betty right?" What significance does him being to one to name her have for the story?

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    1. This is very significant. This shows how self centered Connie is that her friends aren't even important enough to have names or be referred to with names. This shows that Arnold is much more observant to know those names, and less self centered to use names. But he also used the name of Connie's best friend as a form of intimidation, that he knows everything about her.

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    2. I think that this makes the story more uncanny because seeing that this guy that Connie has never talked to knows the name of her best friend shows how creepy Arnold is.

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    3. The fact that it isn't mentioned in the story until he says it just shows that he knows everything about her, from her name to her best friends name to where her parents are.

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    4. I think the author did this to show Arnold was a stalker. The author didn't tell us before this to add the creepiness when hearing it from Arnold.

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  15. Is it significant that Connie's mother expressed that she likes June, Connie's sister, better than Connie? Does this lead Connie to act the way that she does?

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    1. It is very significant due to the fact that Connie can't take the constant comparison to June. This comparison is the reason that she acts the way she does. Especially in the example in which Connie chooses not to go to a family barbecue. This same event in which, Connie is fully realizing the power that Arnold has over her.

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    2. I think it lays the foundation for why Connie acts the way she does and for their relationship in general. It shows why she's at odds with the rest of her family and why she tens to rebel in the way she does. It also shows how at the end Arnold can manipulate her by saying, "you're better than
      them because not a one of them would have done this for you." when he references how she saved her family by going with him.

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  16. Based on the inner discussion, who do you think was to blame for the outcome of the events in the short story? Why?

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    1. Connie because there were multiple times at the beginning of the story where she could have walked away, but she stayed because she was generally attracted to him, or she experienced the uncanny around him. She got herself stuck by staying with him and letting him break her down.

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    2. I think Connie is definitely responsible. Her careless action resulted in the outcome of the story. She had many outs at different point in the story, but took none of them which shows us that she is either not very intelligent or just careless in the moment.

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    3. I think it is ultimately her families fault. I think this because they make her feel like an outcast because they are always comparing her to June, which drives her away and makes her want to push the envelope even more.

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    4. In response to Mackenzie's comment in the inner circle discussion, the same thing could have happened to any of Connie's friends and although yes, she could have walked away from the situation and prevented in from escalating, it was not her fault that she was initially attracted to him and flattered that he was flirting.

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    5. Though Connie's family is always comparing her to June. And though her family view's June as better, it is all Connie's fault when it comes down to it. She chose to not go to the barbecue, and she chose to act and look the way she did. Her family couldn't have forced her to do that. When it came down to it she made every decision, no one else.

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    6. I think it was Arnold's fault. Yes, there are steps Connie could have taken to avoid what had happened but ultimately it's the attackers fault for what happened. For example, if someone is mugged on the street you don't think 'oh well he should have kept his wallet better protected or carried less money'. It seems strange to me that people are saying it's her fault because obviously there are things that can be done to protect oneself in any scenario but one can't be expected to always take those precautions and you can't completely ignoring the fault of the attacker who actually caused the events to happen.

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  17. I thought that the line , "Gonna get you, baby," was a foreshadowing statement. Showing that he really was going to get her. Not in a lovey type of way, but like kidnap.

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    1. Hannah,
      I agree I think that this foreshadowing also affected the story with a distortion of time.

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    2. I agree. I think that there are many points/lines in this story ("'Ellie an I come out here especially for you','Just for a ride, Connie sweetheart','I always keep my word. I'll tell you how it is, I'm nice at first, the first time'") that although one may interpret them as flirting, or in a sweet way they can also be creepy and foreshadow a not good future.

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  18. At one point Arnold says, "Sure you saw me before...You just don't remember." Do you think that maybe they had encountered each other before and she didn't really acknowledge him and that hurt his feelings so that is why he chose her as his victim? Or did he choose her just because she is pretty and outgoing?

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    1. I think that it could be ether one. Both make sense but the story really doesn't give us enough to choose one.

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    2. We know for sure that they had met before because he says to her "Gonna get you, baby", and based on Connie's reaction to this I would say that this could have been why Arnold chose her. She doesn't say anything to him but she acknowledges his presence by looking at him multiple times, so maybe these bewildered looks led Arnold to chose her.

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    3. It could also be that Arnold is trying to intimidate Connie by giving her the impression that he has seen her before, even if she doesn't remember having an interaction.

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  19. What do you think Arnold's car represents in the story? It mentions a couple times the description, "...which was pained so bright it almost hurt her eyes to look at it. And up at the front fender was an expression that was familiar..." (page 5). What is the significance of the bright color or the odd words/phrases painted on it?

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    1. I think the bright colors and phrases could have been used to lighten the mood because after she read some of the phrases she would laugh a little and that lightened the mood and made both Arnold and Connie feel better about the situation

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    2. This seems like a way to bring attention to himself, maybe he feels he doesn't get enough attention and that's why he has to kidnap people like Connie because they wouldn't pay attention to him other wise.

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  20. I thought that the first sentence of the short story was a little dull and probably purposefully done so by Oates. What do you think is the significant about the first sentence of "Her name was Connie"?

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    1. When I read it, I automatically knew that something bad was going to happen to her. It almost starts off as if the narrator is telling the story of Connie, rather than in Connie's point of view and saying "her name is Connie" just makes me think of something like "Her name was connie and this is what happened to her..."

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    2. Lauren,
      I do think that the first line is significant. I think it outlines that the story will be all about Connie, and it sort of foreshadows that Connie cared a lot about herself.

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    3. I agree with Ally I feel like this first sentence even though it's really short foreshadows a lot to what is going to happen in the story. The was shows that Connie is either no longer living or no longer close to who ever the narrator is, so something had to happen to her.

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    4. I agree with Ally. With the use of a past-tense verb "was", it sets the story up for the tale of a girl who died, and this is how she died. It starts the story off with an immediate horror element, setting alarm bells going off in a readers head. I think that it also allows room for a reader to immediately infer that something seriously bad has happened when there is an unknown in the story.

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    5. I think it is significant because it immediately tells the reader that this is a story about Connie. It also reinforces the selfishness that Connie has that ultimately decided her fate. The very first line is just about Connie, and throughout the story, many of her friends remain unnamed (until Arnold mentions them) showing how in Connie's world, it is all about Connie (just like the story).

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  21. As they talked about on the inner circle- what do you think the X meant? I thought it was maybe a kiss like XOXO? But what did everyone else get the notion that it meant?

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  22. If Arnold is not the same age as Connie, how does he obtain all of the personal information about her? If he was older he couldn't easily hang out with younger boys or girls, which would make it difficult to learn things about Connie without coming across as a stalker or creeper. Does Arnold have mental problems, or is he just trying to relive his teenage years?

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    1. Arnold most likely has a mental problem. This mental problem is what caused Arnold to go to the length he does to find out more about Connie and get her to become his. These "teenage years" could be relived through this mental issues. Perhaps his memories are altering the way he acts.

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  23. As the warm up suggests, what did you find about the distortion of time in this story? How did it add to you understanding of the theme?

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    1. I was thinking that it could be used to make you feel as confused as the character in the story, sort of help you understand them better.

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  24. Why would Arnold stalk a younger girl and why did he want Connie specifically? Was it because he wanted to feel young again? Do you think he had a good reason for it or do you believe that he was psychotic?

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    1. When is there ever a good reason to abuse someone? I think he has to be psychotic, especially since he had stalked her and took so much time to plan this out perfectly

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    2. I think because younger girls are more vulnerable and easier to take advantage of and sweet talk

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    3. I feel like Arnold was probably psychotic because normally people don't stalk and go after strangers if they are mentally stable. Plus there is an occurring theme in pretty much all the short stories that we have read of at least one character being psychotic.

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  25. Do you agree with what the inner circle said about Arnold being her future mature self and Elli being her immature self. What do you think?

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    1. I think in some ways I agree with the inner circle because Ellie is immature and is focused on music and he's not always listening just like Connie now, but Arnold was focused more on reality and he was always focused on the present just like Connie might turn out to be.

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    2. Kim,
      I do agree that Arnold sort of represented of what she could become. Arnold also represented a sense of uncanny because he was familiar to Connie because she saw that she could become like him but yet she did not know him.

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    3. I don't know about Arnold being her future self but I don't agree with Elli being her young self because he is described and shy and kind of weird while Connie is described as beautiful and outgoing.

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  26. Do you think that Connie felt the need to be more mature and flirt with him because her family neglects her or because she has inner problems she is trying to solve?

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    1. I think Connie acts rebellious because of her mother. Her mother obviously likes her sister June more, and disapproves of Connie in general which makes her act out to get attention even if it is negative.

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  27. In the end why does Connie make the decision to walk out the door and go with Arnold? On the last page it describes her in a trace like state, "She put her hand against the screen. She watched herself push the door slowly open as if she were back safe somewhere in the other doorway, watching this body and this head of long hair moving out into the sunlight where Arnold Friend waited." It seems as if she was not consciously walking out the door to Arnold. Was is her alone making that decision, or was there another force pulling her out.

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    1. I think she just realized that there was no way out of this and she accepted what was going to happen and it was so disbelieving that she didn't feel like herself.

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    2. I think it was Connie who made the decision to walk out to Arnold because finally after fighting against Arnold for a good amount of time, she realized that she would never be able to get away from him and that she would have to go to Arnold eventually so she finally decided to go to him.

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  28. Several times throughout the story, Arnold seems to be behind the times. Connie notices that he uses several 'old' expressions, saying: "'Man the Flying Saucers.' It was an expression kids had used the year before but didn't use this year." Is there possible foreshadowing there? How does that relate to Arnold's age and interest in Connie?

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    1. I feel like Arnold using these old expressions does show foreshadowing to his older age. It shows that he sort of know what's going on, but he's not with the "in crowd", which makes me think that he is older: which to me makes the story a little more uncanny.

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    2. I think that the use of these old sayings on Arnold's car could imply that Arnold was a figure that Connie couldn't entirely trust and that he was not completely genuine.

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    3. I noticed the old "cool" talk too like when he was trying to distract Connie by adding attention to Ellie. On the second to last page Arnold says to Connie, "Don't mind him, honey, he's just a creep. He's a dope. Right?" To me, by him having to double check that he used the adjective right proves his age and his craving to fit in with the crowd he's aiming towards which perhaps suggests a theme that we all crave to be accepted. It shows he is older and is trying to convince Connie of his maturity.

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  29. On the last page it states, "Arnold Friend said, in a gentle-loud voice that was like a stage voice, "The place where you came from ain't there any more, and where you had in mind to go is cancelled out. This place you are now--inside your daddy's house--is nothing but a cardboard box, I can knock down any time. You know that and always did know that." What do you think this means to Connie? What does it mean to readers?

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    1. He is telling Connie that no matter what she does, no matter how hard she tries to push him away and protect herself from him, he will always be there and have access to her and her life.

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  30. Why does Connie not see him as a threat immediately even though he knows so much about her? Is she too distracted trying to become more mature?

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    1. I think she somewhat sees him as a threat because she is hesitant to go out to him, unlike when she was with other guys. But she is also being her immature and curious self and I think thats why she went out in the first place.

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  31. I thought that maybe Arnold had been a class mate of Connie's and she had turned him down in the past and this is his revenge. Maybe that is why he claims that she knows him?

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    1. I agree with you for that could be a possibility but later in the story it says "She could see that he wasn't a kid, he was much older-thirty, mabye more."

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